One of the things which different dynamic languages do differently is how truth, falsehood, and voidness are handled. I checked how it's done in 9 most popular dynamic languages - Common Lisp, JavaScript, Lua, Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, Scheme, and Smalltalk.
The first question - does the language has dedicated booleans ? That is - do questions like
2 > 1 return special booleans or something else ?- Ruby, Lua, Smalltalk, JavaScript - Yes (
trueandfalse) - Python - Yes (
TrueandFalse) - Scheme - Yes (
#tand#f) - Common Lisp - No, it returns symbol
tfor true and empty list (nil) for false. - Perl - No, it return
1for true, andundeffor false. - PHP - Kinda. Since PHP4 there are booleans
trueandfalse, but their behavior is full of hacks -print trueprints1,print falseprints nothing,false == 0,false == NULL,true == 1, eventrue == 42.
- Ruby, Scheme, Lua - all are true
- Perl, PHP, Python - all are false
- JavaScript - empty list is true, others are false
- Common Lisp - empty list is false, others are true
- Smalltalk -
NonBooloanReceiverexception is raised if anything but booleans is used in boolean context.
"0" false ?- PHP, Perl - unfortunately
"0"is false, and this is a huge source of nasty bugs - Ruby, Scheme, Lua, JavaScript, Python, Common Lisp -
"0"is true - Smalltalk -
NonBooloanReceiverexception is raised
- Ruby, Lua -
nil, accessing nonexistent elements returns it - JavaScript -
undefined, accessing nonexistent elements returns it - Perl -
undef, accessing nonexistent elements returns it - PHP -
NULL, accessing nonexistent elements returns it - Python -
None, accessing nonexistent elements throws an exception - Smalltalk -
nil, accessing nonexistent elements throws an exception - Scheme - there isn't one, accessing nonexistent values is an error
- Common Lisp - there isn't one, but empty list acts as one in most contexts, it is also returned when accessing nonexistent elements
- Ruby, Lua, JavaScript, Perl, PHP, Python, Common Lisp - it is false
- Scheme - there is no nonexistent value marker
- Smalltalk -
NonBooloanReceiverexception is raised
"0") are treated as true, while absence marker is treated as false.There is no clear consensus whether
0, 0.0, "", and empty list should be treated as true or false. Personally I think it's better to make them all true. Otherwise either libraries can define other false objects (like decimal 0.00, various empty containers, and so on) what complicates the language, or they cannot what makes it feel inconsistent.Is most languages accessing nonexistent elements of an array returns an absence marker instead of throwing an exception, and in my opinion that's the right way and it makes the code look much more natural.
I can't speak for any other languages, but javascript's "empty list" evaluates to true because it's not really empty- it's an object that has properties.
ReplyDeleteThis is interesting. Thanks for collecting this information.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of those confusing situations where I'd rather have explicitness. Incidentally java gets this mostly right - there is no notion of 'truthy' or 'falsy' - booleans can be compared only to booleans, anything else is a syntax error.
ReplyDeletee.g.: if ( false == 0 ) /*do something */; - >this is not legal code, but 'if ( false == 2 > 5 ) ', while strange, is legal, as the result of ' 2 > 5' is a boolean.
Reinier Zwitserloot: Situation in static languages is very different than in dynamic languages. In dynamic languages you cannot make use of non-boolean in boolean a syntax error, because the compiler doesn't know what will be returned. The most you can do is throw an exception.
ReplyDeleteJava did what it did because it was the only politically acceptable way of fixing C/C++ mess. They wanted real booleans, consistency (so int 0 and bignum 0 would be treated the same), but didn't want operator overloading (the only way to get bignum 0 be false), and would get lynched if they introduced non-C/C++-compatible rules (0 to be true), so they made the whole thing illegal instead.
Personally I like nil/false are false, everything else is true rule.
The practical equivalent of 'syntax error' in a dynamic language is runtime error. See SmallTalk, it does virtually the same thing (almost all non-obvious conversions generate an exception, where most conversions are non-obvious, which is what this very post shows). Given the complete mess, with 'empty list' being true or false, your preference of having nil/false/0 being 'false' and the rest being 'true', isn't consistent.
ReplyDeleteFor one, most languages out there don't follow this rule, and for two, one man's definition of obviously falsy doesn't fit another's (see javascript's approach to empty arrays).
Reinier Zwitserloot: I actually prefer 0 to be true just like in Ruby.
ReplyDeleteI just prefer situation where 0 is consistently false to situation where it is sometimes false and sometimes true depending on type of 0 (like native int false 0 vs library bignum true 0).
Interesting compilation, thanks! Just one thing:
ReplyDelete"Personally I think it's better to make them all false."
I think you meant "true" there, otherwise the next sentences don't make sense.
Robin: Thanks, that was a late night thinko indeed :-)
ReplyDeleteI prefere in dynamic languages when everything except false is not false and everything except Null/Nil/None is not Null/Nil/None - Integer etc. are just next type of object.
ReplyDeleteBut is it not a difference betwean strongly and weak typed languages?
"Is most languages accessing nonexistent elements of an array returns an absence marker instead of throwing an exception, and in my opinion that's the right way and it makes the code look much more natural."
ReplyDeleteHmm.. I'd say the opposite. Lets say I have an array a = [1,2,3,4,None,6,7]
a[4] should return None. It's not an error condition, its just the value of that element.
a[100] should *not* return None IMHO. It's an error condition since the element does not exist and must be differentiated from the state above. So throwing an exception is the right thing to do.
I'm generally wary of situations where the error value is one of the legal values of the operation.
@The first question - does the language has dedicated booleans ?
ReplyDeleteYour result is not because of php's hackishness but because you are miss-using it, if you want to compare booleans like that use === it is stricter and does some kind of type checking, and there is a boolean type after 4, print is for display only and that is why it appears to work funny.
(posting as ac for defending php)
Common Lisp signals an error condition when accessing a nonexistent array element.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Yeah, but Common Lisp moral equivalent or an array (that is - main sequential data structure) is linked list, and Common Lisp happily returns nil if you car od cdr nil.
ReplyDeleteFor picking a nit: if ( false == 0 ) is not a syntax error in java.
ReplyDeleteGreat overview! I've been bothered by the lack of 'nil' in Scheme. Many (most?) Scheme implementations define a 'void' type which amounts to the same thing, but it's not standardized and there's usually no reader syntax for it.
ReplyDeleteIf one were to add such reader syntax to Scheme (trivially done, of course), what are your thoughts on what the literal should be? Given that we have #t and #f, would #n make sense? Or the full monty, #nil? I'd be loath to define it as anything else but a sharp-sign macro (e.g. Common Lisp's 'nil' infringes on the user's namespace).
Arto Bendiken: RLisp calls them true, false, and nil (#t and #f are also supported, but just for compatibility). I guess if we have #t and #f in Scheme, #n would be a logical choice.
ReplyDelete